Interviewer: Jillian York
Jacob Mchangama is a Danish lawyer, human rights advocate, and public commentator. He is the Founder and Executive Director of The Future of Free Speech, a nonpartisan think tank located at Vanderbilt University. His new book with Jeff Kosseff, The Future of Free Speech: Reversing the Global Decline of Democracy’s Most Essential Freedom, comes out on April 7th.
Jillian York: Welcome, Jacob. I’m just going to kick off with a question that I ask everyone, which is: what does free speech mean to you?
Jacob Mchangama: I like to use the definition that Spinoza, the famous Dutch renegade philosopher, used. He said something along the lines, and I’m paraphrasing here, that free speech is the right of everyone to think what they want and say what they think, or the freedom to think what they want and say what they think. I think that’s a pretty neat definition, even though it may not be fully exhaustive from sort of a legal perspective, I like that.
JY: Excellent. I really like that. I’d like to know what personally shaped your views and also what brought you to doing this work for a living.
JM: I was born in Copenhagen, Denmark, which is a very liberal, progressive, secular country. And for most of my youth and sort of young adulthood, I did not think much about free speech. It was like breathing the air. It was essentially a value that had already been won. This was up until sort of the mid-naughties. I think everyone was sort of surfing the wave of optimism about freedom and democracy at that time.
And then Denmark became sort of the epicenter of a global battle of values over religion, the relationship between free speech and religion with the whole cartoon affair. And that’s really what I think made me think deep and hard about that, that suddenly people were willing to respond to cartoonists using crayons with AK-47s and killings, but also that a lot of people within Denmark suddenly said, “Well, maybe free speech doesn’t include the right to offend, and maybe you’re punching down on a vulnerable minority,” which I found to be quite an unpersuasive argument for restricting free speech.
But what’s also interesting was that you saw sort of how positions on free speech shifted. So initially, people on the left were quite apprehensive about free speech because they perceived it to be about an attack on minorities, in this case, Muslim immigrants in Denmark. Then the center right government came into power in Denmark, and then the narrative quickly became, well, we need to restrict certain rights of hate preachers and others in order to defend freedom and democracy. And then suddenly, people on the right who had been free speech absolutists during the cartoon affair were willing to compromise on it, and people on the left who had been sort of, well, “maybe free speech has been taken too far” were suddenly adamant that this was going way too far, and unfortunately, that is very much with us to this day. It’s difficult to find a principled, consistent constituency for free speech.
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Jacob Mchangama is the Founder and Executive Director of The Future of Free Speech. He is also a research professor at Vanderbilt University and a Senior Fellow at The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE).